Zoe Dronfield

CRN: What's the most pressing issue preventing progress with diversity today that no one's talking about?

ZD: " Gender equality. Just look at the pay gap and the disparity between men and women in senior roles within IT, add women of colour to this and the landscape scarcer. For this to change men need to be part of the change, they are often the ones ‘still' making decisions as senior leaders so if of your leadership team are middle aged white men – that's on you."

CRN: How much progress do you believe the industry has made in diversity since you started working in IT?

ZD: " There is acknowledgment now that there is an issue, but I really don't feel like much has changed. Its still very much a boys club and friends creating jobs for each other rather than actually going into the market and hiring on merit.

"Or even giving opportunities to people who would be fantastic for the role. Most men will ‘give it a go' if they have 5 out of 10 skills needed for a role. However women feel they need 10+ to be considered. Maybe a lot of women are more self critical, or self conscious or maybe men get the handshake and feel empowered. We don't and that's why there is this divide. People also like to hire people like themselves, therefore this reduces diversity as we need a mix of people to work in teams. I think some leadership teams don't want to be challenged so they hire people who are safe to them. Although you can see through the generations some pockets of change."

CRN: What should senior management teams be doing more of to help create a more inclusive industry for everyone?

ZD: "There should be more focus on results and outcomes, I also feel like there is a massive untapped market in our female workforce where we are still batted down in meetings and made to feel less than. The workforce – all the workforce – should feel empowered to have an opinion and be able to input into the business."

CRN: How did you first get into the IT industry?

ZD: " I was interested in computers at a very young age. My uncle wrote a program on the old Dragon 32 computer which I used to play as a child. He showed me the coding, not that I understood it much back then but it must have sparked an interest as I chose to take IT at college when I left school. I've always been interested in being more efficient and this is definitely where tech benefits us all. I remember not having the internet. Now I can't imagine life without ChatGPT!"

CRN: What have been some of your experiences (both good and bad) with how the channel has historically approached diversity?

ZD: " I'm sorry to say but there is a lot of virtue signalling. Companies who post on socials the work they are doing in this area, but inside the business little has changed. The rainbow on the logo on pride week but never at any other time. Being diverse is how you are all the time not at certain anniversaries and I think this says a lot. Look at company policies and how they treat their staff to really understand their stance in this area.

"If a company still does not have balance in pay between men and women, then that says a lot. I mean we have moved on in society from women asking for equal rights. It's a whole new landscape out there and I don't think industry have caught up. I campaign a lot around women's issues and mostly people smoke screen ‘nothing to see here' with their fanfare behaviour around gender issues. Those are the ones we should be checking they practice what they preach."

CRN: Who have been your biggest role models in your professional life, and how have they helped you to succeed?

ZD: " My uncle was a huge role model in my life. He was a successful driven man and even at the age of my earliest memories being around six or seven years old, he was talking to me about what would have been considered ‘male' subjects. Cars, property, IT, business…. I never really recognised the gender difference until entering the world of work. I remember one of my very first interviews and the man behind the desk of a large mulit national company I had applied for a role, he asked me ‘where do you see yourself in 5 years'….I said ‘ in your seat'….he laughed his head off, I was quite confused because I was being serious… I got the job by the way and no I didn't get his role unfortunately."

CRN: Do you think companies should be compelled to publish ethnicity pay gap data?

ZD: " Absolutely! I'm a true advocate for transparency and I'm sure there will be people wincing in their seats reading this but if you are hiding it or embarrassed by it then it must be wrong!"

CRN: Has it always been easy for you to be open about your experiences in the workplace?

ZD: " I'm a survivor of a ferocious domestic violent attack. I was almost murdered in 2014 and I definitely felt like there was a stigma. I was absolutely victim blamed and looked down upon by some companies I worked with. However, others got it, but only because I refused to let the stigma stick and I have challenged anyone who thinks that a victim is somehow to blame for violence or abuse. There is a lot of ignorance out there and often domestic abuse is completely misunderstood, as if we are weak in some way – quite the contrary. However, once educated people tend to empathise.

"That's why I'm on a mission to keep the conversation open. One in four women have experienced domestic abuse at some point in there lives. I actually think that stat is low. I was talking to a PCC recently who said he asked his three daughters about that stat and they said its more like 100 per cent - I agree. I don't know any women who has not been heckled, belittled, abused or dealt with sexism or misogyny in their life and that's sad."

CRN: Who have been your biggest role models in your professional life, and how have they helped you to succeed?

ZD: " I have had some really good male bosses actually and that is what it will take to really get equality. For men to step up and recognise the problem. Its seems its only when it affects them personally, they have daughters for example that their perspective changes but we all have a mother. There have also been very strong women in my life – and well actually the most strongest women I know are survivors of abuse. They have had to fight a secret fight, all while holding it together on the outside. I applaud them."